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	<title>Comments on: El Clásico de Avella&#8230; oh.</title>
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	<link>http://hastaelgolsiempre.com/2008/05/30/el-clasico-de-avella-oh/</link>
	<description>More fútbol argentino than you can shake a mullet at</description>
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		<title>By: Seba</title>
		<link>http://hastaelgolsiempre.com/2008/05/30/el-clasico-de-avella-oh/#comment-1793</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Seba]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2008 05:57:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hastalogolsiempre.wordpress.com/?p=1277#comment-1793</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m so glad you got to watch it! I&#039;m very happy I was able to help you. Anything for a fellow Racing fan! 

Mate, I&#039;m so happy to see your post and to notice such an enthusiasm and care for Racing. It means a lot. 

I think we had a similar view of the match, despite the fact that you are a little bit &quot;happier&quot; with the point than I am. 

Talking to a friend tonight, he said something that made perfect sense. I said: &quot;Why would you settle for a draw that is of no help and you time-waste from such an early stage?&quot;. 

He replied: &quot;Seba, they surely didn&#039;t want to be remembered as the Racing squad that was sent to the promoción by Independiente. So a draw meant a lot to them, even if it makes no difference and if it leaves Racing still very complicated. They just didn&#039;t want to lose the derby match&quot;. 

It makes sense. I&#039;m still not a 100% convinced that was the way we should have approached the game, but I&#039;m a little bit cooler than I was when I first posted my reactions. 

As for youngster JL Fernandez, I quite liked his composure. I can&#039;t imagine a worst possible scenario to make your full debut than that. And he was calm and looked in control most of the times. I&#039;m certainly happy with his performance and I hope he can take that position and make it his from now on, because he&#039;ll surely improve. 

Zuculini is great. He was called up to the U20&#039;s of Argentina. I&#039;m also puzzled by Llop decision to keep him on the bench and picking both Yacob and Sanchez before him (even though they are more experienced). He didn&#039;t have a great game today but he is very valuable. 

Bastia, Chatruc and Estevez are retired players still enjoying an incredible priviledge of playing for Racing. They are not even Primera B standard. 

Bastia was sold to a Greek club and he is surely trying not to risk any injury before the deal is finalised. 

Chatruc can&#039;t run for a full 90-minute match. Actually, he can&#039;t even run for 50 minutes! 

Estevez has a belly larger than mine and his desire and work-rate is surely not even close to what I&#039;d show if I had the priviledge of playing for Racing. When I say &quot;I&quot;, I could also be saying &quot;my grandmother&quot; and it&#039;d make no difference. 

I was very young in 1983 (6 years old). But that team was nowhere near as bad as this. 

And finally (before going on forever), our attack. 

Oh god! What a sorry state! When this season started we had: Sava, Bergessio and Piojo Lopez. Even though I think Lopez is done, I&#039;d take him back any day of the week if that means we won&#039;t see Avalos and Navia anymore. 

With Bergessio alone, we would have 10 or 15 points more than what we have now. 

Sava is done. Navia and Avalos, not up to the task. Manicero? The thickest footballer alive. The only player I know that takes EVERY decision wrong! 

I think we will definitely play the Promoción. Oh...I&#039;ll suffer. I&#039;ll suffer big time!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m so glad you got to watch it! I&#8217;m very happy I was able to help you. Anything for a fellow Racing fan! </p>
<p>Mate, I&#8217;m so happy to see your post and to notice such an enthusiasm and care for Racing. It means a lot. </p>
<p>I think we had a similar view of the match, despite the fact that you are a little bit &#8220;happier&#8221; with the point than I am. </p>
<p>Talking to a friend tonight, he said something that made perfect sense. I said: &#8220;Why would you settle for a draw that is of no help and you time-waste from such an early stage?&#8221;. </p>
<p>He replied: &#8220;Seba, they surely didn&#8217;t want to be remembered as the Racing squad that was sent to the promoción by Independiente. So a draw meant a lot to them, even if it makes no difference and if it leaves Racing still very complicated. They just didn&#8217;t want to lose the derby match&#8221;. </p>
<p>It makes sense. I&#8217;m still not a 100% convinced that was the way we should have approached the game, but I&#8217;m a little bit cooler than I was when I first posted my reactions. </p>
<p>As for youngster JL Fernandez, I quite liked his composure. I can&#8217;t imagine a worst possible scenario to make your full debut than that. And he was calm and looked in control most of the times. I&#8217;m certainly happy with his performance and I hope he can take that position and make it his from now on, because he&#8217;ll surely improve. </p>
<p>Zuculini is great. He was called up to the U20&#8242;s of Argentina. I&#8217;m also puzzled by Llop decision to keep him on the bench and picking both Yacob and Sanchez before him (even though they are more experienced). He didn&#8217;t have a great game today but he is very valuable. </p>
<p>Bastia, Chatruc and Estevez are retired players still enjoying an incredible priviledge of playing for Racing. They are not even Primera B standard. </p>
<p>Bastia was sold to a Greek club and he is surely trying not to risk any injury before the deal is finalised. </p>
<p>Chatruc can&#8217;t run for a full 90-minute match. Actually, he can&#8217;t even run for 50 minutes! </p>
<p>Estevez has a belly larger than mine and his desire and work-rate is surely not even close to what I&#8217;d show if I had the priviledge of playing for Racing. When I say &#8220;I&#8221;, I could also be saying &#8220;my grandmother&#8221; and it&#8217;d make no difference. </p>
<p>I was very young in 1983 (6 years old). But that team was nowhere near as bad as this. </p>
<p>And finally (before going on forever), our attack. </p>
<p>Oh god! What a sorry state! When this season started we had: Sava, Bergessio and Piojo Lopez. Even though I think Lopez is done, I&#8217;d take him back any day of the week if that means we won&#8217;t see Avalos and Navia anymore. </p>
<p>With Bergessio alone, we would have 10 or 15 points more than what we have now. </p>
<p>Sava is done. Navia and Avalos, not up to the task. Manicero? The thickest footballer alive. The only player I know that takes EVERY decision wrong! </p>
<p>I think we will definitely play the Promoción. Oh&#8230;I&#8217;ll suffer. I&#8217;ll suffer big time!</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Gilbert</title>
		<link>http://hastaelgolsiempre.com/2008/05/30/el-clasico-de-avella-oh/#comment-1789</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Matthew Gilbert]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 21:39:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hastalogolsiempre.wordpress.com/?p=1277#comment-1789</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Firstly, many thanks to Seba for pointing me in the direction of the streams to watch the match... I had an excellent view of it from one of the streams on the P2P site, it would&#039;ve been very frustrating not to have seen it. 
As for the game, well Facundo Sava is hardly Lisandro Lopez or Gonzalo Bergessio is he? It shows how far Racing have fallen down the pecking order to rely on an ageing striker whose best days are behind him. I think he tries hard, but no longer has the finishing power Racing need. As for the other so-called strikers, Avalos and Navia, I think they are terrible, almost as embarrassing as Abreu. And Chanchi Estevez was great in 2001, but there&#039;s no way he should even be on the bench now. Malano doesn&#039;t seem to have developed either, so it&#039;s a chronic lack of striking power that has put Racing in this position. Who is responsible for signing these players? Costas? Mico? Blanquiceleste? Do you feel sorry for Llop, he seems to have even less to work with than he did at Godoy Cruz, so you could hardly blame him for being so negative in a match like this. I think a defeat would have been a crushing blow from which Racing could not have recovered, maybe Llop will spin it as a moral victory as *everyone* (including myself) expected Independiente to win. There&#039;s always a chance, I really do think Colon will lose their next two games, so it is still a little in Racing&#039;s hands. 

But I see your point, Seba, it&#039;s hard to pick out a player who&#039;s playing well right now. Chatruc still shows flashes mainly in home games, but he isn&#039;t a regular scorer. What did you think of the new &#039;pibe&#039;, JL Fernandez? Full of enthusiasm, but it&#039;s hard to put him into a match like this. 
I like Zuculini, better than Bastia or Sanchez right now, and was surprised he didn&#039;t start. There wasn&#039;t much he could do coming on except hold on to the draw. 
Your so right about Bastia, when Racing won the title I thought he was a tremendous player, and he was good in Merlo&#039;s Estudiantes too, but he really seems to be finished now. Is it a physical problem, a lot of injuries playing for years in a tough position, or has he lost his motivation? He certainly wouldn&#039;t have done anything out there today. 

So yes, a very poor game - Independiente were poor too, the thought that they could win the title or even qualify for a Copa is laughable - but I&#039;m taking an optimistic view, I expected a defeat and it&#039;s one point I didn&#039;t expect Racing to get. I just hope that Colon are demoralised by heavy defeats in the next two matches so AKD can still turn it round. 
But for all the talk of the worst squad in Racing&#039;s history - I don&#039;t know what the 1983 squad was like, they must have been pretty poor? - they must also be the unluckiest side in history... the Boca handball incident, Lanus&#039;s &#039;goals&#039;, a disallowed Sava goal against Newell&#039;s that should have stood, all things mentioned on here before along with others, even a sprinkling of better luck would have brought enough points to overhaul Colon...
AND IT STILL CAN BE DONE! Mucha suerte Seba y todos los Racinguistas!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Firstly, many thanks to Seba for pointing me in the direction of the streams to watch the match&#8230; I had an excellent view of it from one of the streams on the P2P site, it would&#8217;ve been very frustrating not to have seen it.<br />
As for the game, well Facundo Sava is hardly Lisandro Lopez or Gonzalo Bergessio is he? It shows how far Racing have fallen down the pecking order to rely on an ageing striker whose best days are behind him. I think he tries hard, but no longer has the finishing power Racing need. As for the other so-called strikers, Avalos and Navia, I think they are terrible, almost as embarrassing as Abreu. And Chanchi Estevez was great in 2001, but there&#8217;s no way he should even be on the bench now. Malano doesn&#8217;t seem to have developed either, so it&#8217;s a chronic lack of striking power that has put Racing in this position. Who is responsible for signing these players? Costas? Mico? Blanquiceleste? Do you feel sorry for Llop, he seems to have even less to work with than he did at Godoy Cruz, so you could hardly blame him for being so negative in a match like this. I think a defeat would have been a crushing blow from which Racing could not have recovered, maybe Llop will spin it as a moral victory as *everyone* (including myself) expected Independiente to win. There&#8217;s always a chance, I really do think Colon will lose their next two games, so it is still a little in Racing&#8217;s hands. </p>
<p>But I see your point, Seba, it&#8217;s hard to pick out a player who&#8217;s playing well right now. Chatruc still shows flashes mainly in home games, but he isn&#8217;t a regular scorer. What did you think of the new &#8216;pibe&#8217;, JL Fernandez? Full of enthusiasm, but it&#8217;s hard to put him into a match like this.<br />
I like Zuculini, better than Bastia or Sanchez right now, and was surprised he didn&#8217;t start. There wasn&#8217;t much he could do coming on except hold on to the draw.<br />
Your so right about Bastia, when Racing won the title I thought he was a tremendous player, and he was good in Merlo&#8217;s Estudiantes too, but he really seems to be finished now. Is it a physical problem, a lot of injuries playing for years in a tough position, or has he lost his motivation? He certainly wouldn&#8217;t have done anything out there today. </p>
<p>So yes, a very poor game &#8211; Independiente were poor too, the thought that they could win the title or even qualify for a Copa is laughable &#8211; but I&#8217;m taking an optimistic view, I expected a defeat and it&#8217;s one point I didn&#8217;t expect Racing to get. I just hope that Colon are demoralised by heavy defeats in the next two matches so AKD can still turn it round.<br />
But for all the talk of the worst squad in Racing&#8217;s history &#8211; I don&#8217;t know what the 1983 squad was like, they must have been pretty poor? &#8211; they must also be the unluckiest side in history&#8230; the Boca handball incident, Lanus&#8217;s &#8216;goals&#8217;, a disallowed Sava goal against Newell&#8217;s that should have stood, all things mentioned on here before along with others, even a sprinkling of better luck would have brought enough points to overhaul Colon&#8230;<br />
AND IT STILL CAN BE DONE! Mucha suerte Seba y todos los Racinguistas!</p>
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		<title>By: Seba</title>
		<link>http://hastaelgolsiempre.com/2008/05/30/el-clasico-de-avella-oh/#comment-1785</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Seba]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 19:55:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hastalogolsiempre.wordpress.com/?p=1277#comment-1785</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve got to say I&#039;m gutted with the result. But more than the result, what really makes me sad is to see an incredibly horrible Racing team time-wasting for most of the second half (when we had the best chances). 

I can&#039;t believe how Facundo Sava (former Fulham player) missed that chance with the keeper totally beaten and he hit the crossbar. 

One minute later he had his revenge and he missed it too, heading wide from very close range and unmarked. 

He is to blame for us not taking the 3 points (even though we didn&#039;t have a shot on target in the entire first half). 

This results means that we are now entirely in Colón&#039;s hands. But what&#039;s worst is that even if Colón get no points from their two upcoming fixtures (River at home and Estudiantes away) we are now forced to beat Huracán next ween and then beat Colón in Santa Fé if we want to avoid the Promoción or a play-off match with Colón to decide who goes to the Promoción. 

I&#039;m absolutely gutted to see we didn&#039;t really go for it and this was just another performance that goes to prove my point. Which is: This is the worst Racing Club squad in our entire history. 

(by the way...my team called: &quot;Namberwan&quot; won 2-0 and I played a few minutes in the second half. Came in with the score still 0-0 and helped the team to win it. Too bad that a general fight broke near the end of the match and it was very nasty. I didn&#039;t get involved but it was a horrible thing to witness).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve got to say I&#8217;m gutted with the result. But more than the result, what really makes me sad is to see an incredibly horrible Racing team time-wasting for most of the second half (when we had the best chances). </p>
<p>I can&#8217;t believe how Facundo Sava (former Fulham player) missed that chance with the keeper totally beaten and he hit the crossbar. </p>
<p>One minute later he had his revenge and he missed it too, heading wide from very close range and unmarked. </p>
<p>He is to blame for us not taking the 3 points (even though we didn&#8217;t have a shot on target in the entire first half). </p>
<p>This results means that we are now entirely in Colón&#8217;s hands. But what&#8217;s worst is that even if Colón get no points from their two upcoming fixtures (River at home and Estudiantes away) we are now forced to beat Huracán next ween and then beat Colón in Santa Fé if we want to avoid the Promoción or a play-off match with Colón to decide who goes to the Promoción. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m absolutely gutted to see we didn&#8217;t really go for it and this was just another performance that goes to prove my point. Which is: This is the worst Racing Club squad in our entire history. </p>
<p>(by the way&#8230;my team called: &#8220;Namberwan&#8221; won 2-0 and I played a few minutes in the second half. Came in with the score still 0-0 and helped the team to win it. Too bad that a general fight broke near the end of the match and it was very nasty. I didn&#8217;t get involved but it was a horrible thing to witness).</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Gilbert</title>
		<link>http://hastaelgolsiempre.com/2008/05/30/el-clasico-de-avella-oh/#comment-1783</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Matthew Gilbert]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 16:56:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hastalogolsiempre.wordpress.com/?p=1277#comment-1783</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[On a TYC Sports stream right now... hope it lasts, and hope I enjoy what&#039;s on it...

ACADEEEEE, ACADEEEEE!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On a TYC Sports stream right now&#8230; hope it lasts, and hope I enjoy what&#8217;s on it&#8230;</p>
<p>ACADEEEEE, ACADEEEEE!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: justin</title>
		<link>http://hastaelgolsiempre.com/2008/05/30/el-clasico-de-avella-oh/#comment-1782</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[justin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 15:44:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hastalogolsiempre.wordpress.com/?p=1277#comment-1782</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Switch Boca out for Racing. They have played reserve sides for the last several weeks anyway, obviously they only care about the Libertadores, so why not make it official and be a full-time cup team, like Liverpool? :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Switch Boca out for Racing. They have played reserve sides for the last several weeks anyway, obviously they only care about the Libertadores, so why not make it official and be a full-time cup team, like Liverpool? :)</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://hastaelgolsiempre.com/2008/05/30/el-clasico-de-avella-oh/#comment-1781</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andrew]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 15:37:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hastalogolsiempre.wordpress.com/?p=1277#comment-1781</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Although I am not a Racing fan, best of luck to la Academia today. I think next season would be a lot less colorful if they were to go down to the second division.

Switch out Arsenal for Racing in the relegation table, that&#039;s what I say. If only it weren&#039;t for Grondona...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Although I am not a Racing fan, best of luck to la Academia today. I think next season would be a lot less colorful if they were to go down to the second division.</p>
<p>Switch out Arsenal for Racing in the relegation table, that&#8217;s what I say. If only it weren&#8217;t for Grondona&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Seba</title>
		<link>http://hastaelgolsiempre.com/2008/05/30/el-clasico-de-avella-oh/#comment-1779</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Seba]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 12:39:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hastalogolsiempre.wordpress.com/?p=1277#comment-1779</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dear friends, I&#039;m off to play a football match myself. Kick-off time is noon. So as soon as I finish playing, I&#039;ll take a quick shower and stay in the cafeteria to watch Independiente v. Racing on TV.

Unfortunately, I won&#039;t be online to follow it with you. 

I can&#039;t believe I&#039;m playing with a temperature of only 2 degrees (celsius)! 

I hope I&#039;m in a good mood after 4 PM!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear friends, I&#8217;m off to play a football match myself. Kick-off time is noon. So as soon as I finish playing, I&#8217;ll take a quick shower and stay in the cafeteria to watch Independiente v. Racing on TV.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, I won&#8217;t be online to follow it with you. </p>
<p>I can&#8217;t believe I&#8217;m playing with a temperature of only 2 degrees (celsius)! </p>
<p>I hope I&#8217;m in a good mood after 4 PM!</p>
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		<title>By: hastaelgolsiempre</title>
		<link>http://hastaelgolsiempre.com/2008/05/30/el-clasico-de-avella-oh/#comment-1775</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[hastaelgolsiempre]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 23:15:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hastalogolsiempre.wordpress.com/?p=1277#comment-1775</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;d forgotten about Poy, Seba. I saw him on TV during one of my visits to Argentina. The funniest thing of all is, it&#039;s not as if it&#039;s an utterly incredible goal or anything. He doesn&#039;t skin five men before rifling it into the top corner from 30 yards out, nor does he lob the &#039;keeper from inside his own penalty area... it&#039;s a diving header on the edge of the six-yard box.

Here&#039;s a link to a few of the celebrations, though: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZUDnMJUIFk&amp;feature=related]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d forgotten about Poy, Seba. I saw him on TV during one of my visits to Argentina. The funniest thing of all is, it&#8217;s not as if it&#8217;s an utterly incredible goal or anything. He doesn&#8217;t skin five men before rifling it into the top corner from 30 yards out, nor does he lob the &#8216;keeper from inside his own penalty area&#8230; it&#8217;s a diving header on the edge of the six-yard box.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a link to a few of the celebrations, though: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZUDnMJUIFk&#038;feature=related" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZUDnMJUIFk&#038;feature=related</a></p>
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		<title>By: Seba</title>
		<link>http://hastaelgolsiempre.com/2008/05/30/el-clasico-de-avella-oh/#comment-1768</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Seba]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 20:41:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hastalogolsiempre.wordpress.com/?p=1277#comment-1768</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yep! Mauro is one of Aldo&#039;s sons.

Here&#039;s a link to an article in which Mauro dedicates one of his goals to his father. 

http://www.lanacion.com.ar/deportiva/Nota.asp?nota_id=743967]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yep! Mauro is one of Aldo&#8217;s sons.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a link to an article in which Mauro dedicates one of his goals to his father. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.lanacion.com.ar/deportiva/Nota.asp?nota_id=743967" rel="nofollow">http://www.lanacion.com.ar/deportiva/Nota.asp?nota_id=743967</a></p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Gilbert</title>
		<link>http://hastaelgolsiempre.com/2008/05/30/el-clasico-de-avella-oh/#comment-1767</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Matthew Gilbert]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 20:30:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hastalogolsiempre.wordpress.com/?p=1277#comment-1767</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This Aldo Poy story is so funny! I looked him up on Wikipedia, and saw that one of the recreations of the goal was in Cuba, and Che Guevara&#039;s son took part!!! :)
Is Aldo Poy any relation to Mauro Poy, who was in Llop&#039;s Godoy Cruz side that was in La Primera last season? I notice that Mauro was born in Rosario.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This Aldo Poy story is so funny! I looked him up on Wikipedia, and saw that one of the recreations of the goal was in Cuba, and Che Guevara&#8217;s son took part!!! :)<br />
Is Aldo Poy any relation to Mauro Poy, who was in Llop&#8217;s Godoy Cruz side that was in La Primera last season? I notice that Mauro was born in Rosario.</p>
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